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December Banter


mackerel_sky

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Nada for anyone in East Coast outside LES areas and Northern Apps peaks until after December 27 per 0z Euro. We do have a building snowpack over Great Plans after Christmas, though...

 

The Euro's reputation must have really taken a hit after its disastrous handling of this coming weekend's cloudy/drizzle "storm" if we're now discussing it in banter.  :lmao:

 

Nice 576 dm heights over NC at the end of the run, too...  It's pouring the cold in the west again and pumping up heights out this way.  850s in the 10-15C range.  :yikes:  Highs in the upper 50s to upper 60s for most of the region.

 

Thankfully, it's just one op run.

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The Euro's reputation must have really taken a hit after its disastrous handling of this coming weekend's cloudy/drizzle "storm" if we're now discussing it in banter.  :lmao:

 

Nice 576 dm heights over NC at the end of the run, too...  It's pouring the cold in the west again and pumping up heights out this way.  850s in the 10-15C range.  :yikes:  Highs in the upper 50s to upper 60s for most of the region.

 

Thankfully, it's just one op run.

 

Ehh, it's not just Euro. I didn't think it was worth posting in Pattern thread considering how much models are flip-flopping long range.  <_<

 

Thanks goodness my 4 inches from a fluke ULL and a nice NWFS is keeping me sane thus far as I'm usually not known for patience. Someone apparently lost it in Mid-Atlantic thread  :P

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Thanks goodness my 4 inches from a fluke ULL and a nice NWFS is keeping me sane thus far as I'm usually not known for patience. Someone apparently lost it in Mid-Atlantic thread  :P

 

Looks like Ji is being... Ji.

 

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/45168-this-winter-sucks-the-big-one/#entry3197961

 

 

Horrible start. We just punted away one winter month. Pattern change keeps getting delayed. No cold in Canada. Can't even drive to see snow. This smells like 2006-2007. Like we're going to get 2 good winters in a row. I've seen enough. It's flipping over.

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Also looking back at the old forum I noticed the doom and gloom for the winter of 2010-2011 which actually ended up above average in the foothills from 3 storms.

1 surprise in December

(http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/12Dec_Snow/Event_Review_12Dec10.pdf)

the Christmas storm

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/white_Christmas/25-27_december_2010.jpg

and another storm in early January before the rest of the winter torched, but 16 inches here that winter..

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2011/10Jan_WinterStorm/Snow&FrzgRain_10%20Jan11.pdf

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Also looking back at the old forum I noticed the doom and gloom for the winter of 2010-2011 which actually ended up above average in the foothills from 3 storms.

1 surprise in December

(http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/12Dec_Snow/Event_Review_12Dec10.pdf)

the Christmas storm

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/white_Christmas/25-27_december_2010.jpg

and another storm in early January before the rest of the winter torched, but 16 inches here that winter..

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2011/10Jan_WinterStorm/Snow&FrzgRain_10%20Jan11.pdf

Hard to believe there was any doom and gloom that winter considering it got off to such a cold and snowy start in December and lasted all the way through Mid February here. Then the 2nd half of Feb was very warm, but it was a great winter overall.
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Also looking back at the old forum I noticed the doom and gloom for the winter of 2010-2011 which actually ended up above average in the foothills from 3 storms.

1 surprise in December

(http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/12Dec_Snow/Event_Review_12Dec10.pdf)

the Christmas storm

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/white_Christmas/25-27_december_2010.jpg

and another storm in early January before the rest of the winter torched, but 16 inches here that winter..

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2011/10Jan_WinterStorm/Snow&FrzgRain_10%20Jan11.pdf

 

We had three snow events in December, including this one: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~nwsfo/storage/cases/maps/accum.20101204.gif

 

And, of course, the Boxing Day storm...

 

Then the rest of the winter sucked.  The January storm disintegrated before it really got here.  It was depressing to watch.  The OBX got crushed in late January (just a nice cloudy day in the 20s here), we got a coating of snow in February, and we got a trace on March 28th.  Aside from that, it was over.  Definitely a front-loaded winter.  The winter was basically over after December 26th IMBY.

 

We still ended up with a little above average snowfall, so it was a decent enough winter, but I hate front-loaded winters like that.  I'd prefer rear-loaded winters like last winter, if anything.

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We had three snow events in December, including this one: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~nwsfo/storage/cases/maps/accum.20101204.gif

 

And, of course, the Boxing Day storm...

 

Then the rest of the winter sucked.  The January storm disintegrated before it really got here.  It was depressing to watch.  The OBX got crushed in late January (just a nice cloudy day in the 20s here), we got a coating of snow in February, and we got a trace on March 28th.  Aside from that, it was over.  Definitely a front-loaded winter.  The winter was basically over after December 26th IMBY.

 

We still ended up with a little above average snowfall, so it was a decent enough winter, but I hate front-loaded winters like that.  I'd prefer rear-loaded winters like last winter, if anything.

 

Last winter was OK, but also terribly frustrating here...the Jan 28th event was about 1.5 inches here and almost 4 inches 20 miles to our east in Morganton at a lower elevation.. The February 13 storm was great (8 inches) but was hard to enjoy due to the death of my mother.. then the March slop storm... 1 inch of snow.. then rain.. then sleep.. then snow.. amounted to a whole lot of nothing here.. in all about 12 inches on the winter.. a little above average but nothing spectacular like many had.

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Also looking back at the old forum I noticed the doom and gloom for the winter of 2010-2011 which actually ended up above average in the foothills from 3 storms.

1 surprise in December

(http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/12Dec_Snow/Event_Review_12Dec10.pdf)

the Christmas storm

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2010/white_Christmas/25-27_december_2010.jpg

and another storm in early January before the rest of the winter torched, but 16 inches here that winter..

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/gsp/localdat/cases/2011/10Jan_WinterStorm/Snow&FrzgRain_10%20Jan11.pdf

 

 

That Christmas day storm is where I feel like I went from boy to man on the forums. 

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Who would have thought the big pattern change would be a change to warm!!? Very disheartening runs from both models yesterday and last night. Hopefully they are wrong, but what a kick in the pants for winter lovers! The warministas should be rejoicing !! The most epic winter ever, is starting to look like crap! Wonder what JB has to say about this, has to be sweating a little about his forecast for winter? People can claim Dec was wild card , but iirc most every forecast had cold Jan, if the models are right, not a good start to Jan

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I still say this will be a repeat of 2011- 2012. Seems like everything keeps getting pushed back just like then. Most of the SE has already had the coldest weather this winter has to offer and the Nov 1 snow is all that falls in SC this winter.

I'm starting to believe that myself. Although I think I feel this way every winter because I generally enjoy snow the most in December as it really puts me in the Christmas Spirt, and when that doesn't happen I guess I just become disheartened. As I've learned not every year can be as special as 2009/2010

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I still say this will be a repeat of 2011- 2012. Seems like everything keeps getting pushed back just like then. Most of the SE has already had the coldest weather this winter has to offer and the Nov 1 snow is all that falls in SC this winter.

 

OMG pllleeeeaaaasssseeee don't start this s*** again. You did this at least 3 times last winter and failed miserably.

 

This is why no one takes you seriously.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous to make such progs on 12/18. I have to believe you do this out of some weird, misunderstood, teenager mad-at-dad, sarcastic joking mentality & don't intend to be taken seriously.

 

You know....those "dark humor" types.

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Who would have thought the big pattern change would be a change to warm!!? Very disheartening runs from both models yesterday and last night. Hopefully they are wrong, but what a kick in the pants for winter lovers! The warministas should be rejoicing !! The most epic winter ever, is starting to look like crap! Wonder what JB has to say about this, has to be sweating a little about his forecast for winter? People can claim Dec was wild card , but iirc most every forecast had cold Jan, if the models are right, not a good start to Jan

 

 

I'm starting to believe that myself. Although I think I feel this way every winter because I generally enjoy snow the most in December as it really puts me in the Christmas Spirt, and when that doesn't happen I guess I just become disheartened. As I've learned not every year can be as special as 2009/2010

 

So - what exactly are you looking at/studying to reach this conclusion? Where is this coming from?

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There are only 2 times I can think of that featured cold and snow before mid Dec in the last 30 years that went on to have winter weather after the new year outside of the mountains. Those are 2009-2010 and 2010-2011. 

 

1989-1990 : December was very cold with ice and some snow , the rest of winter was warm

2000-2001 : some snow in November and December, rest of winter cold but no winter precip

2005-2006 : big Dec ice storm, nothing rest of winter 

2011-2012 : a big October snow in the northeast, rest of winter was warm with only 1 small storm in Feb in NC. not even 1 flake of snow or sleet pellet where I am

2012-2013 : major snow from Sandy that year in the mountains , rest of winter was warm but we did get lucky and have 3 very minor events

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That Christmas day storm is where I feel like I went from boy to man on the forums. 

 

:D

 

Ha!  It was a rite of passage, so to speak.  That was the first storm that I experienced as a member of this forum.  I will remember your intense PBP of the models from that storm and Robert's incredible posts leading up to it.  What a great thrill ride that was!  May we have many more such threads in the near future...

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So - what exactly are you looking at/studying to reach this conclusion? Where is this coming from?

For myself, it's from the 12z Euro yesterday op and ensembles, last nights euro and GFS , no more then a day or two of cold, then about 10-15 degrees above norms up to New Years . It wasn't just one model or one run, that's the concerning part to me
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LOL...I am sure it is frustrating for them as December is a viable snow month for them.  I think a lot of that is reverse psychology, they pout and moan and then then they think the weather will shut them up with a blizzard.  Maybe we should try that...

 

Didn't Don S. have something a few years ago showing how a snowy NYC in Dec is a good omen for the EC?  It's going to be close but I would think they will have a chance the last few days of Dec.

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For myself, it's from the 12z Euro yesterday op and ensembles, last nights euro and GFS , no more then a day or two of cold, then about 10-15 degrees above norms up to New Years . It wasn't just one model or one run, that's the concerning part to me

 

There's not even consensus between qualified humans who interpret the models at the moment.

 

But there's an abundant supply of opinions. Many of which are different - yet based on the same runs and models.

 

I don't know how anyone can conclude anything concerning 3+ weeks out other than through trend observation (which looks favorable).

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