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The Big One - Forecast & Discussion


Wow

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I would like to make a friendly suggestion to the new people before we get closer to this big event.

 

Could everyone edit their profiles and enter the location info (nearest weather station id or your city/state). Then we can see where you are located and not have to ask you. It'll help in real-time tracking when you post.

 

Thanks !!!

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This... this is looking more and more like a KU snowstorm. Euro ensembles are in very good agreement on this outcome now.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to get on my high horse for a brief moment, but I think the GFS and NAM are doing a horrible job with this event  (wednesday and beyond). When I look at models and try to get an assessment of what is going to happen, the first thing I do is look at the ECMWF and its ensembles.

 

When the ECMWF is showing an overamplified solution relative to the rest of the guidance, I stand back and try to understand if its catching on to something the other models are missing or if its an outlier that should be thrown out. The easiest way to figure this is out is to look at the its ensemble mean. Guess what, the ECMWF ensemble mean is pretty much exactly what the deterministic solution is. The ECMWF Ensemble Prediction System (EPS) is superior to the GFS Ensembles because it contains 50 members and does a more realistic job of depicting the probability PDF of any one particular solution, preventing it from being under dispersive like the GFS ensembles are in most cases.

 

So when there is strong agreement within 72 hours from the ECMWF and the ECMWF ensembles, I place that in the highest regard over all other guidance. Thats what we are seeing currently. The GFS and NAM are completely on the edge of the ECMWF ensemble PDF and therefore should both be considered outliers in this case. Its a little startling to see this must dispersion between the model guidance within 72 hours, but for tricky phasing cases like this, its the norm. While taking a mean might sound like the best course of action, in reality when there is this much spread, you are taking a good forecast and merging with a bad forecast to create a mediocre forecast. I think it would be a better idea to place greater emphasis on the ECMWF solution given the strong support it has by its ensembles. 

 

Excellent post and I fully agree!  I have been saying all week that the NAM has been awful and the the Euro and its EPS members have been absolutely stellar and incredibly consistent.  I see no reason to go against that model within 36 hours of event start time.

 

Nicely worded!!

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I would like to make a friendly suggestion to the new people before we get closer to this big event.

 

Could everyone edit their profiles and enter the location info (nearest weather station id or your city/state). Then we can see where you are located and not have to ask you. It'll help in real-time tracking when you post.

 

Thanks !!!

 

Locations have been disappearing from posts. It looks like a database issue.

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LOL!!

;) 

 

stop looking at the NAM haha what a garbage model with this storm.

The gfs is a scary sight  :(

 

Well you should..it might be the last time you see them for a month.....or ever :o:devilsmiley:;)

I know right?!  :lol: 

 

You made me look  :angry:   Here is CAE..... :yikes:  http://68.226.77.253/text/1DegGFS/GFS_kcae.txt

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Chris, btwn the RGEM and GFS this morning, they drop over an 1" of ZR and GFS is 2" of ZR!!!  NAM still clueless

 

Chris, I think it's apparent now that the NAM needs to be thrown out. Like I said the fact that it was bringing in great thickness for my back yard means it's seeing how cold the wedge is. Bad news for folks in your area. Hopefully some sleet can mix in but anything over 1 inch of ZR is going to be disastrous. I just don't know how down there you get anything less than .75 to an inch. I also doubt convection robs moisture on this. 

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Chris, btwn the RGEM and GFS this morning, they drop over an 1" of ZR and GFS is 2" of ZR!!!  NAM still clueless

I hope you don't get 2 inches of freezing rain..that is not something I'd wish on anyone.

 

But Yeah, not surprising things have trended colder. Especially since you even have the euro getting freezing temps into alabama. It's going to be especially interesting to watch it unfold If snow is able to fall pretty far south. The rate at which the models drop the temps is really incredible considering it's strictly cold air advection and  not due to evaporational cooling.

 

I don't think I agree with hpc about the freezing rain totals around athens over toward my area...unless the nam profile is right (which i doubt it) because the depth of the cold air below the warm nose, combined with the warm nose not being terribly deep (unless you count the nam), and heavy precip rates should tend to favor more sleet than freezing rain.

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I hope you don't get 2 inches of freezing rain..that is not something I'd wish on anyone.

 

But Yeah, not surprising things have trended colder. Especially since you even have the euro getting freezing temps into alabama. It's going to be especially interesting to watch it unfold If snow is able to fall pretty far south. The rate at which the models drop the temps is really incredible considering it's strictly cold air advection and  not due to evaporational cooling.

 

I don't think I agree with hpc about the freezing rain totals around athens over toward my area...unless the nam profile is right (which i doubt it) because the depth of the cold air below the warm nose, combined with the warm nose not being terribly deep (unless you count the nam), and heavy precip rates should tend to favor more sleet than freezing rain.

Ya, that would be something else...GFS has expanded the Glaze to .10" even further south across my viewing area as well.

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It is weird they now have Asheville down to 5".... Not even the Nam has it that low I think

 

I think some of the decreases have to do with the likelihood of a stronger system introducing more warm air into the mid levels which would allow more instances of -ip and -zr.

 

I could be totally wrong as well.

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I think some of the decreases have to do with the likelihood of a stronger system introducing more warm air into the mid levels which would allow more instances of -ip and -zr.

 

I could be totally wrong as well.

 

I'd be surprised if this was the case. There hasn't been any mention of -ip or -zr on any of the models or the forecasts. I think the more likely scenario is that the map is produced as an average of model runs and the new NAM and GFS skewed amounts down. Is this possible?

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I hope you don't get 2 inches of freezing rain..that is not something I'd wish on anyone.

 

But Yeah, not surprising things have trended colder. Especially since you even have the euro getting freezing temps into alabama. It's going to be especially interesting to watch it unfold If snow is able to fall pretty far south. The rate at which the models drop the temps is really incredible considering it's strictly cold air advection and  not due to evaporational cooling.

 

I don't think I agree with hpc about the freezing rain totals around athens over toward my area...unless the nam profile is right (which i doubt it) because the depth of the cold air below the warm nose, combined with the warm nose not being terribly deep (unless you count the nam), and heavy precip rates should tend to favor more sleet than freezing rain.

I don't agree with there area amounts either.  They look to far N

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I'd be surprised if this was the case. There hasn't been any mention of -ip or -zr on any of the models or the forecasts. I think the more likely scenario is that the map is produced as an average of model runs and the new NAM and GFS skewed amounts down. Is this possible?

 

For the mountains, I would tend to agree with you.

 

For northern upstate SC (for example) ip and/or zr is a very real possibility, although overdone because of a very stout CAD IMO.

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