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kvskelton

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You all have been looking at these models for a lot longer than I have. Is it true that the NAM just isn't very accurate ever  outside of 48 hours? I have read a ton of people that say that, but do you all believe that to be true? One thing that I've noticed is that this system just keeps getting pushed back further and further. Seemed like a couple of days ago we were looking at Monday. Now the main precip (whether we get anything or not) looks to be on Wed.

 

 

FTFY

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Just phased late. The stronger the solution, the better we are. It is the NAM past 48, but the phase is inside of the window. One run does not make a trend. Let's see if the Canadian and Euro hold. The NAM only showed E TN snow for three runs which is why it pays for MRX to be careful. Hope is not lost...just tempered.

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One thing that I've noticed is that this system just keeps getting pushed back further and further. Seemed like a couple of days ago we were looking at Monday. Now the main precip (whether we get anything or not) looks to be on Wed.

This was always two distinct systems. The first was overrunning precip, and the second was the main low developing in the gulf around Wednesday. 

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0z Euro ensemble run down.

 

Deterministic / Ensemble Mean (Big Dog = 6 inches or more)

 

Bristol - 8.5/8.1 with 37 big dogs

Chattanooga - 5.5/6.5 with 28 big dogs

Crossville - 5.5/5.0 with 18 big dogs

Knoxville - 6.5/6.2 with 27 big dogs

Memphis - 2.5/1.9 with 2 big dogs

Nashville - 3.6/2.4 with 4 big dogs

Jackson - 3.2/1.7 with 1 big dog

Paris - 0.7/1.0 with 0 big dogs

Tupelo - 1.0/2.0 with 0 big dogs

Huntsville - 2.4/2.7 with 2 big dogs

Asheville - 11.9/13.0 all but 4 are big dogs with 2 members over 2 feet!

 

AxjEDFM.jpg

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If this does not sum it up!

 

from the 12z GFS....66 HR...nice "eye" of 32+ right over Knoxville....

 

 

It is kinda nuts how the higher resolution on models these days is starting to pick up on urban heat islands and topography with regards to surface temps. Euro consistently shows fewer accums in the Nashville basis and several degrees higher on surface temps.

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How has the GGEM done in this range historically?

 

I'm not up on the verification scores so someone else would have to answer that.  I've heard that it starts to do pretty well once you get closer to the 48 hour mark.  If you ask jmundie he'll tell you it's garbage haha. 

 

Edit:  Also, it has had Robert's attention lately.

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Pulled this from the SE forum.  Allan Huffman's take on the storm.  Not sure if so much of TN is not listed because he's not expecting much for us, or if he's just not including it. 

 

 

 

 

Well waited long enough. Here is my first map and a brief discussion.

 

Well this is as difficult a map as I have ever had to make due to the many zones of p-type issues and also the model uncertainty, but this is my best guess.

Synopsis

A complicated setup as we see several s/w in the southern branch of the jet stream interact with each other while the northern branch of the jet stream delivers a fresh supply of cold polar/arctic air into the Great Lakes and Northeast. The high pressure is not too strong, around 1032-1035mb, but it is in a classical CAD position as the storm begins and transitions to a hybrid setup as the storm wears on. Diabatic processes will help intensify the damming and drive it well into South Carolina and Georgia.

Right now, I feel like low pressure along the Gulf Coast will consolidate into a stronger area of low pressure east of Savannah/Charleston by Wednesday morning. By Wednesday afternoon a trough will capture this storm and begin to strengthen it rapidly while turning it north east of Hatteras. I do not expect the low pressure center to track up the coastal plain but to stay off shore. This fits historical events, climo, takes into account model biases, and the current synoptic pattern with the wedge locked in east of the mountains.

Best Chance for Heavy Snow

I see the area from NE Georgia into upstate South Carolina, western NC, and central Va as standing the best chance to receive very heavy snow. I have 8-12 inches there right now, but if the storm does indeed bomb and hug the coast amounts in excess of a foot are possible. This includes Greenville, SC, Asheville, Hickory, Greensboro into Roanoke.

Best Chance for Severe Ice

This zone is hard to pinpoint as we have an unusually wide transition zone with this Miller A type storm. Right now from central Georgia into central SC and into east-central NC stand the best chance of seeing 0.5 to 0.75 inches of freezing rain accrual. It is possible some areas could see up to 1 inch of ice accrual, but this would be an unusually severe case. This includes areas like Athens, Columbia, Fayetteville, and Raleigh. It is possible there could be a changeover to rain Wednesday night along the I-95 corridor and east in NC, but it could be brief or hold east of I-95. As of now, I do not think Raleigh-Durham changes to plain rain.

There are many transition zones and mixed precipitation areas, so look at the map and that will tell you what I think for your area. I will update this as data changes. Confidence is still somewhat low but increasing some.

Attached Images
  • feb10snow.jpg

 

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How bout them 12z Euro apples....

 

Holy Smokes!!!! Whatever data the Euro injested, I hope the others do too, it's been amazingly consistent though for the last several days! I sure hope that verifies! The Euro and Canadian are epic! GFS not so much, NAM, well, it's just being the NAM, I hope haha.

 

Jmundie, we will let it shift 30 miles for you as long as we can keep the temps at 850 and 2M cold enough for snow over here. Somehwere there is definitely going to be a sharp cutoff, where I guess we will just have to see.

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The 12Z Euro looks better to me but I am still cautionary (big surprise)...don't know how good the topo really is in the model...there could be some rain shadow effect...and scouring of the warmer BL temperatures is always difficult...just some of the reasons we might get Chopped... some of the clown map amounts don't necessarily look like they have a perfect topo depiction. Looks very sloppy for Chatt on this run, better for Knoxville and decent in surrounding areas. Many miles to go, though.

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QPF from Euro

 

Tys..1.04

tri....1.24

 

cha..i'll post your being you're on the border line

 

 

WED 06Z 12-FEB   1.4    -1.1    1024      63      97    0.00     561     542   
WED 12Z 12-FEB   0.2    -0.5    1023      83      99    0.09     560     542   
WED 18Z 12-FEB   1.0     0.4    1019      92      99    0.21     558     543   
THU 00Z 13-FEB   0.3    -0.9    1014      97     100    0.43     551     540   
THU 06Z 13-FEB   0.2    -2.1    1011      96      98    0.24     545     536   
THU 12Z 13-FEB  -0.9    -2.4    1013      90      34    0.07     545     535

 

BNA  .25

 

MEM..05

 

MDQ...Hunts

 

WED 00Z 12-FEB   2.4    -2.1    1024      65      85    0.00     561     542   
WED 06Z 12-FEB   0.7    -0.5    1024      73      96    0.01     562     543   
WED 12Z 12-FEB   1.4     0.1    1021      96      98    0.07     559     543   
WED 18Z 12-FEB   2.0     0.3    1018      97      99    0.13     557     543   
THU 00Z 13-FEB   0.9    -1.1    1014      99      98    0.24     550     539   
THU 06Z 13-FEB   0.5    -2.7    1013      97      93    0.12     546     535

 

 

MSL

TUE 06Z 11-FEB  -1.6    -1.9    1026      56      80    0.00     562     541   
TUE 12Z 11-FEB  -2.1    -2.2    1027      57      84    0.05     561     540   
TUE 18Z 11-FEB   2.9    -1.3    1027      46      87    0.00     562     541   
WED 00Z 12-FEB   1.6    -1.0    1024      63      82    0.00     562     542   
WED 06Z 12-FEB   0.2     0.1    1023      63      91    0.01     562     543   
WED 12Z 12-FEB   1.0     0.3    1020      89      97    0.04     559     543   
WED 18Z 12-FEB   2.2     0.4    1018      98      99    0.11     556     542   
THU 00Z 13-FEB   0.7    -1.6    1015      99      99    0.24     550     538

 

If i left someone out shout

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All eyes will turn to the 0z runs tonight.  I hope the Euro (and GGEM) are leading the pack here. By 0z runs tonight, the northern component to this potential storm will be sampled and we will see if there are any dramatic shifts.  

 

For the record, I certainly thought the 12z Euro would have been a little further east in light of the other 12z models (specifically the NAM & GFS), especially when the early pbp for the 12z Euro (from the se forum) was for the southern stream being further south.   

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What are the most accurate models this close in?

This year, I couldn't guess. All have struggled mightily, even under 36 hours. Any other year I'd say it's time to get out the shovels and sleds just based on the Euro, But that's not been the case this year. It's been well noted that the NAM especially has struggled even while events are underway.

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