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3/6-7 obs thread


tombo82685

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Storm cancel?

 

DELAWARE-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...MEDIA
1230 PM EST WED MAR 6 2013


.TONIGHT...CLOUDY WITH SNOW. TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATION OF 2 TO
4 INCHES
. BREEZY WITH LOWS AROUND 30. NORTH WINDS 15 TO 20 MPH.
GUSTS UP TO 40 MPH IN THE EVENING. CHANCE OF SNOW 80 PERCENT.

 

DELAWARE-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...MEDIA
1252 PM EST WED MAR 6 2013


.TONIGHT...SNOW. TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATION AROUND AN INCH. VERY
WINDY WITH LOWS AROUND 30. NORTH WINDS 20 TO 30 MPH WITH GUSTS UP
TO 45 MPH...DIMINISHING TO 15 TO 20 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 30 MPH
AFTER MIDNIGHT. CHANCE OF SNOW 80 PERCENT.

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So far, it seems like the heavier bands that are rotating back our way (I am just south of you right on the Cherry Hill/Mt. Laurel, NJ border) seem to be falling apart as they hit the 40N line +/-.  Is there any impetus to get those bands to come further north or will they just eventually slide due east with the rest of the storm and keep any heavier precip (and any chance of snow that eventually accumulates) literally a few miles to our south?  

 

The storm will gain some latitude. It's not a lot but it will be enough to bring the edge of what's over MD/VA across the southern half of our region. The deep cyclonic flow, moist mid-upper levels (with some omega) and leftover ageostrophic circulations down there will be enough to give our area a few bands of snow this evening. The threat time begins 5-8pm and probably ends 1-4am. Bands circulating westward from the departing storm will continue through the morning, but should focus in Northeast areas mostly.

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Winds are really roaring here, getting a lot of trees down throughout SJ.

 

The wind was the glaring threat from this one for a while and the modeling was all over it (even if the snow was not as easy). Still got a lot of hours left of this!

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The storm will gain some latitude. It's not a lot but it will be enough to bring the edge of what's over MD/VA across the southern half of our region. The deep cyclonic flow, moist mid-upper levels (with some omega) and leftover ageostrophic circulations down there will be enough to give our area a few bands of snow this evening. The threat time begins 5-8pm and probably ends 1-4am. Bands circulating westward from the departing storm will continue through the morning, but should focus in Northeast areas mostly.

 

Thanks.  I was hoping that was the answer, but after spending the morning watching intermittent light rain with 40 F temps (and reading the observations down in the Northern VA)... well, it was getting easy to see things in the most negative light possible.   

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Cross-check on the 0Z GFS and NAM to see how they're doing... (Edit: Added EC)



Here's the forecasts for PHL:

6Z-12Z Wednesday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.14" 0.14" 0.13" 0.02" EC wins by 0.01"

12Z-18Z Wednesday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.46" 0.21" 0.18" 0.04" EC wins by 0.03"

18Z-0Z Wednesday afternoon
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.25" 0.12" 0.16"

0Z-6Z Wednesday evening
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.31" 0.03" 0.12"

6Z-12Z Thursday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.15" 0.01" 0.05"




Here's the forecasts for DCA:

6Z-12Z Wednesday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.65" 0.66" 0.48" 0.25" EC wins by a comparative landslide

12Z-18Z Wednesday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.41" 0.63" 0.43" 0.55" GFS wins by 0.08

18Z-0Z Wednesday afternoon
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.44" 0.32" 0.16"

0Z-6Z Wednesday evening
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.20" 0.01" 0.02"

6Z-12Z Thursday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.02" 0.00" 0.00"



Here's the forecasts for NYC:

6Z-12Z Wednesday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.00" 0.01" 0.00" 0.00" EC and NAM tie

12Z-18Z Wednesday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.08" 0.05" 0.03" 0.00" EC wins

18Z-0Z Wednesday afternoon
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.27" 0.11" 0.06"

0Z-6Z Wednesday evening
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.28" 0.10" 0.09"

6Z-12Z Thursday morning
0Z NAM 0Z GFS 0Z EC Reality
0.32" 0.03" 0.12"



EC winning overall

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Ray, thanks for the information. I think the CI is really screwing around with the QPF and actual precip. Clearly, the ECMWF was the best (again) from that end of things. The only good news I can think of for our area, in terms of snow, is the timing (which is a lot better than DC's timing).

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Ray - thanks - presumably, if someone only checks depth every 6 hours vs. at various points in the 6 hours, they could miss significant accumulations that were on the board in that timeframe, but then melted before the 6 hour measurement, correct?  I could see that being a significant source of error in reporting, from station to station/observer.

 

Yeah that's possible.  More likely when its a snow->rain scenario, though, and this will be the other way around.

 

No change to my call for TTN... up to 2 inches.  So far all the models have verified as far, far too wet there with only 0.02" actually having fallen so far.

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There are still some rather nice looking radar returns rotating through interior South Jersey.  I am still thinking they are the result of wet snow flakes being picked up really well by the radar beam.  I am curious if anybody down that way is seeing any actual snowflakes mixing in with their rain at ground level.      

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Ray, thanks for the information. I think the CI is really screwing around with the QPF and actual precip. Clearly, the ECMWF was the best (again) from that end of things. The only good news I can think of for our area, in terms of snow, is the timing (which is a lot better than DC's timing).

Yeah, poor DC...  I don't think there's been more than a coating in DC, despite the 0.55" just since 12Z.  At IAD I saw they reported ~4", ~3" since 12Z on 0.39" precip (8:1 ratio).

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I just stepped outside for a minute.  Snow or no snow, it is a nasty day out there.  Winds are howling out of the NE which makes the temps and light rain feel a LOT worse than they really are.  I am not exaggerating when I say it feels like a tropical storm type event... though the fact that it is raining (rather than snowing) certainly adds to the effect.  Presumably, if/when a couple of flakes work their way into the mix, it will stop feeling quite so tropical.  

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Wow, considering these poles (presumably... although I guess they could be replacements) survived Sandy, it is saying something that they came down today.  

 

Sandy came into the coast further north then Cape May... maybe that is one factor, wind direction difference?

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I wouldn't rule out a few bands that rotate westward capable of covering you up. Deep cyclonic flow without a lot of strong convergence (vertically stacked system) will still have powerful conveyor belts. I could see a few bands shooting back west.

The DC-BWI area is now getting widespread TSSN but yeah that's too bad. Did the NWS take into consideration that this would be banded, so there would be melting rates today and/or the ratios being less than 8:1? Just because you get 1.5" QPF, doesn't mean you necessarily can achieve 6-10 inches.

 

Will definitely be looking out for those bands. The predicted totals were too widespread given the time of year, daytime and temperatures in place..I thought IAD could pull off 8 with heavy rates, but it looks more like 5-6..DCA/95 I was very skeptical for.

 

 

On a side note, these guys got Walloped  (  :facepalm: sorry ) before the center passed over them...that convective conveyor is awesome down there.

 

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?wfo=vef&sid=KWAL&num=72&raw=0

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Sandy came into the coast further north then Cape May... maybe that is one factor, wind direction difference?

 

Definitely a possibility... they could have been battered real good from Sandy's winds in one direction and then today's battering from a different direction was enough to finish them off.  

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