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Coastal low 1/24 can this get winter going?


Mitchell Gaines

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Long way to go GGEM UKMET JMA are out to sea as is the one model that had this for days the NAVGEM

I think sometimes people are too black and white with their analysis/terminology.   I wouldn't call the canadian out of sea, that to me anyway, implies something different.   It is certainly east of the euro and gfs of course.

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The warmest the Euro gets at KPHL is 33 degrees at 2M and +1 850. My feeling is that if this run played out exactly as modeled (which it won't) KPHL would be mainly frozen. 1 inch qpf so even losing some to taint this would be a nice snowfall IMO but plenty of time to sort out.

 

"exactly as modeled" would be rain/snow mix for most of the storm at PHL.  Remember, "exactly as modeled" means temp profile is correct too.  That sounding is, at best, rain/snow mix.  Probably more rain.  There's a long stretch which is right around freezing so add in the warm nose where its above, and you'll get melted snowflakes long before it gets to the ground.

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Dare I ask for an early prediction, Ray?

 

Absolutely not.  Still highly uncertain.  Lots of solutions still on the table.  Based on latest modeling, cold air being limited as it is, a big snowstorm along I-95 seems like it would be a bit hard.  Nothing is off the table.

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"exactly as modeled" would be rain/snow mix for most of the storm at PHL. Remember, "exactly as modeled" means temp profile is correct too. That sounding is, at best, rain/snow mix. Probably more rain. There's a long stretch which is right around freezing so add in the warm nose where its above, and you'll get melted snowflakes long before it gets to the ground.

No use arguing details this far out but I would ride my chances with a profile in that range during the height of a nor'easter. There's such little room for error on track that I would still bet against a primarily snow event at KPHL but I love the Euro track/strength

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No use arguing details this far out but I would ride my chances with a profile in that range during the height of a nor'easter. There's such little room for error on track that I would still bet against a primarily snow event at KPHL but I love the Euro track/strength

Need more cold

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KInd of expected a little stronger wording for Saturday in the evening forecast package.   Still just 40% rain & snow showers for Saturday,

up from just partly cloudy in the morning package.

 

Well that's a trend anyway. Given the complexities of the pattern this winter so far, I can't really blame them for not jumping in with both feet just yet. And it's a could go either way situation still, both with the track and the precipitation type, for south and east anyway.

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Well that's a trend anyway. Given the complexities of the pattern this winter so far, I can't really blame them for not jumping in with both feet just yet. And it's a could go either way situation still, both with the track and the precipitation type, for south and east anyway.

Agreed, thought maybe a 40% chance of rain or snow.  Whatever, a lot of time to go with many twists in the road ahead.

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Not to be a negative Nellie, but the DGEX which is an extension of the NAM which has a hard time inside 60 hrs. Other than than that Hugely positive PNA may be enough to overcome the + NAO. Hope it works out.

this is not being negative, it is being 100percent prudent.   The DGEX should not be used in forecasting this far out.

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The dgex isn't run under 84 hours so it should certainly be looked at right now.

 

Agreed, thought maybe a 40% chance of rain or snow.  Whatever, a lot of time to go with many twists in the road ahead.

40 percent seems low given where the models stand right now.  doesn't mean anything is a lock, but as it stands now, i think it is more likely than not that it precipitates during the time frame in question

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http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/mmb/mmbpll/dgexhome.ops/

 

Slightly more technical:

The DGEX is initialized by interpolating the 78-h operational NAM forecast to a smaller 12-km domain. A 78-h to 192-h forecast of the NMMB is made (same version that is running in the NAM), using the previous 6-h old GFS forecast for lateral boundary conditions.
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