Dsnowx53 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 To be fair, there is more than one way to measure a cool summer. The fact that we've had so few 90-degree days and no heat waves is certainly significant, especially considering how many heatwaves we've had in recent summers. Departures are usually the best way to measure warmth vs cold, but they don't always tell the whole story, and they definitely do not tell the whole story this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlover74 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 To be fair, there is more than one way to measure a cool summer. The fact that we've had so few 90-degree days and no heat waves is certainly significant, especially considering how many heatwaves we've had in recent summers. Departures are usually the best way to measure warmth vs cold, but they don't always tell the whole story, and they definitely do not tell the whole story this year. Cool summer maybe..non existent summer or saying summer ended in July? Ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsnowx53 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Cool summer maybe..non existent summer or saying summer ended in July? Ridiculous Agreed. But I don't think it's fair to call a summer with no heatwaves "normal", either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's been fairly normal. The only real negative departures we've had were in this month. Most stations are around normal for June and July when compared to the warmest 30 year climate block, 1980-2010. Maybe you're just used to expecting 30 days above 90 when that's simply not normal. The normal for 90+ degree days for NYC is around 14. They only have had a couple for the whole summer. LGA I believe only 1 or 2 times also. We are far from normal with regards to heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycwinter Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 when was the last time you had a colder winter than what has been the norm for the last decade..followed up by a cool summer for what has been the norm the last 10 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoSki14 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I haven't heard many people saying it's been a cool summer but people are saying its felt more normal and comfortable than past years which is exactly how this summer has gone. We might average a slightly below normal summer if we take June-July-August but it's nothing crazy but it might feel crazy to some because of some very high positive departures in the last few summers. I agree some what about measuring summer in terms of high to extreme heat and this year has been very lackluster in that department. We've seen cooler summers on average with more 90F+ heat than this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 i'll be impressed when we get a 4 year string of -3 julys that hasn't happened since 1888-91...UHI was minimal compared to today but smokey skies and pollution were the norm back then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEXtreme Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I haven't heard many people saying it's been a cool summer but people are saying its felt more normal and comfortable than past years which is exactly how this summer has gone. We might average a slightly below normal summer if we take June-July-August but it's nothing crazy but it might feel crazy to some because of some very high positive departures in the last few summers. I agree some what about measuring summer in terms of high to extreme heat and this year has been very lackluster in that department. We've seen cooler summers on average with more 90F+ heat than this one. We still have 11 days left in the month. Given the solid negatives coming the next several days, if you take the three months it would likey end up more then just slightly below normal. Central Park has only had 4 days above 85 with one 90 so far this month and no heatwave this summer. Many locations, including Newark haven't even touched 90 this month. There were only a handful of 90's in some locations during the first 12 days of July with some squeaking out a heatwave or two. I work in the HVAC business, so I would like nothing more but a very hot summer. But I can tell you the last time our business was as down as it is, was the summer of 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 In terms of 90 degree or higher heat, this has been one of the coolest summers in 30 years. We currently have the lowest number of combined 90 degree days for EWR-NYC-LGA-JFK over the last 30 years. Combined 90's 2014..18 2009..35 2004..23 1996..21 1985..33 90 degree days since 1984: Year..EWR....NYC....LGA.....JFK 84...22...10...9...13 85...11....9....8....5 86...22...11...9...8 87...37...22...19..11 88...43...32...26...14 89...27...16...17...9 90...26...12...10...6 91...41...39...26...13 92...22.....9...9......6 93...49...39...26...13 94...39...19...22...7 95...33...29...23...15 96....8.....3.....6....4 97...20...12...17...10 98...21.....8....11....5 99...33...27...26....14 00...16....7.....12.....6 01...22...15...17.....8 02...41...32....35...21 03...20....8...17.....12 04...13...2.....7.......1 05...37...23...30.....17 06...26...8....22......12 07...21..10...23.......7 08...22...12...19......9 09...14....7.....8.......6 10...54....37...48.....32 11...31...20...19.....13 12...33...19....28....16 13...25....17....21....9 14...10....4......3......1....so far *JFK currently tied for fewest 90 degree since 1984 days at 1 *LGA currently at fewest 90 degree days since 1984 with 3 days behind the 6 of 1996. *EWR has not seen an August without a 90 degree reading since at least 1950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The normal for 90+ degree days for NYC is around 14. They only have had a couple for the whole summer. LGA I believe only 1 or 2 times also. We are far from normal with regards to heat. I agree 90+ days have been lacking. But if we're below normal with regards to 90 degree heat AND everyone's saying how cool the mornings are, how did we average normal for June and July even when compared to the warmest 30 year climate block ever? With the lack of 90 degree days and the supposed cool mornings we should be way below normal, right? But we're not. People just don't remember what normal is, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvantHiatus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The lack of 90 is not so much a cool summer but more or less a pre-dominnant onshore fetch this summer. Hence the daily minimums have been near normal and moderated by the water and the daily maximums have been just under 90 degrees at times. It's a statistical illusion. Of course, south of 40N it has been warmer, Philly and DC are trending slightly above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I agree 90+ days have been lacking. But if we're below normal with regards to 90 degree heat AND everyone's saying how cool the mornings are, how did we average normal for June and July even when compared to the warmest 30 year climate block ever? With the lack of 90 degree days and the supposed cool mornings we should be way below normal, right? But we're not. People just don't remember what normal is, that's all. With UHI, it's very hard to get big departures in the summer months because of the night time temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsnowx53 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I agree 90+ days have been lacking. But if we're below normal with regards to 90 degree heat AND everyone's saying how cool the mornings are, how did we average normal for June and July even when compared to the warmest 30 year climate block ever? With the lack of 90 degree days and the supposed cool mornings we should be way below normal, right? But we're not. People just don't remember what normal is, that's all. I just think the cooler mornings are a perception based on how much cooler they've been compared to the last couple of summers. That's because the WAR dominated, leading to a much muggier environment, limiting radiational cooling. This year, we haven't had that same influence, so it "feels" a lot cooler, but the nighttime mins have probably been running slightly above normal this summer. It's the daytime highs and the extreme lack of 90-degree heat that makes this summer a cool one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsnowx53 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 With UHI, it's very hard to get big departures in the summer months because of the night time temps. This as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 We still have 11 days left in the month. Given the solid negatives coming the next several days, if you take the three months it would likey end up more then just slightly below normal. Central Park has only had 4 days above 85 with one 90 so far this month and no heatwave this summer. Many locations, including Newark haven't even touched 90 this month. There were only a handful of 90's in some locations during the first 12 days of July with some squeaking out a heatwave or two. I work in the HVAC business, so I would like nothing more but a very hot summer. But I can tell you the last time our business was as down as it is, was the summer of 2009. All of August except for a couple days at the beginning of the month average below a high of 85. Today the park averages 82. Remember how everyone was saying how cool and pleasant last August was? It was only 0.6 degrees below normal, and again that's when compared to the warmest 30 year climate block. I can't stress that enough. People are used to big heat. We didn't get it this year. But other than the lack of 90 agree heat most of the summer has been near normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This as well. I deleted my post by mistake, crap. I wanted to add maybe we should check some rural stations that haven't changed much to see how their nighttime lows have been over the last 50+ years in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The Manhattan UHI has been in place for almost 100 years, and the surrounding boroughs at least 50 years. Did all below normal nighttime temps end in 1960? I'm not saying UHI didn't hamper cooler nighttime lows, of course it did. But why is this all of a sudden the excuse for warm nighttime lows? Maybe the cooler air sources that visit us from time to time aren't as strong or as frequent. We go through this every year. You can't tell me that there hasn't been a big urbanization of the boroughs over the past 25 years alone. Just look at Queens. Especially the LIC area. That entire area has turned into a new city. This has occurred in multiple areas. Williamsburg, Hoboken and Jersey City, just to name a few. Urbanization is still exploding and will continue to do so. When the Flushing Junk Yards turn into 30 huge high rise buildings and another new city is born, talk to me about UHI in the surrounding areas. The cities keep growing and UHI is becoming more and more of a problem. Please don't compare UHI 100 years ago to today. Not even in the same stratosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I deleted my post by mistake, crap. I wanted to add maybe we should check some rural stations that haven't changed much to see how their nighttime lows have been over the last 50+ years in the summer. All you have to do is look at LGA. I guarantee you that nightime lows have been affected by UHI there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 "Maybe the cooler air sources that visit us from time to time aren't as strong or as frequent." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 so far KNYC has 26 days with a minimum 70 or higher...Nine straight at one point... Total days with a minimum of 70+ and consecutive days min 70+...year total min 70+ consecutive 70+1930..........26............81931..........34............71932..........25............61933..........33............61934..........26............41935..........29..........111936..........20............41937..........28............61938..........34..........121939..........44..........131940..........24............81941..........27............61942..........20............41943..........30............41944..........41..........141945..........29............41946..........11............31947..........30............51948..........29............61949..........43..........101950..........13............51951..........23............71952..........38..........121953..........34..........101954..........18............51955..........45..........131956..........20............51957..........31............51958..........26............41959..........46..........101960..........20............51961..........42............91962............8............21963..........14............51964..........19............41965..........17............41966..........40..........111967..........17............51968..........29............61969..........33............61970..........37..........101971..........45............91972..........30..........151973..........37..........111974..........26............31975..........23..........121976..........24............41977..........37............91978..........31..........131979..........42..........171980..........52..........221981..........39............81982..........30..........121983..........45..........131984..........40..........161985..........34............61986..........31............41987..........32............71988..........42..........211989..........28............51990..........32............81991..........31............71992..........14............41993..........35..........101994..........35............91995..........39..........181996..........22............51997..........27............81998..........39..........111999..........45..........132000..........22............42001..........30............92002..........43............92003..........33..........152004..........28............62005..........60..........142006..........41..........152007..........35............82008..........35............82009..........18............52010..........54..........222011..........40...........92012..........47..........10 2013..........51..........19 2014..........26............9 as of 8/211876..........46..........14 1902..........16............8 1903..........18............51906..........61..........171908..........54..........16 1888..........17............6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 All you have to do is look at LGA. I guarantee you that nightime lows have been affected by UHI there. Bro it wasn't like Manhattan and the surrounding close areas like western Brooklyn and Queens were all forest. These places have been totally built up for 100 years. Eastern Queens finished up in the early 1960s. The UHI difference must have been huge when the city was confined to southern Manhattan and then exploded outward toward 1900. Yes adding taller glass building traps more heat, but not the same way as going from natural land to covered in buildings and attached homes. Most of the UHI damage was done by 1900 in Manhattan and western Brooklyn and Queens. Again we can just check a rural station to see nighttime lows over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Check out the warming in the Adirondacks, where I'm pretty sure UHI is not an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bro it wasn't like Manhattan and the surrounding close areas like western Brooklyn and Queens were all forest. These places have been totally built up for 100 years. Eastern Queens finished up in the early 1960s. The UHI difference must have been huge when the city was confined to southern Manhattan and then exploded outward toward 1900. Yes adding taller glass building traps more heat, but not the same way as going from natural land to covered in buildings and attached homes. Most of the UHI damage was done by 1900 in Manhattan and western Brooklyn and Queens. Again we can just check a rural station to see nighttime lows over time. Same argument every year. UHI is much more today then in the past. Why are you checking a rural station? I am arguing that UHI is continuing and getting worse. Check LGA and I would bet you money, the average night time lows are increasing over the past 100 years and the only reason for it is because of the growth and building explosion occurring in every single direction around the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Check out the warming in the Adirondacks, where I'm pretty sure UHI is not an issue http://www.esf.edu/communications/view.asp?newsID=1624 Nothing to do with UHI. I am discussing the night time lows around NYC and other cities. Temps around Manhattan (and it's boroughs) are rising because of UHI. When I am in Astoria and it's 78 degrees at 11pm, then I drive to Flushing and it's 74 degrees and then I drive to Great Neck and it's 71 degrees and then to Plainview (at my friends home) and it's 65 degrees, it's 100% because of UHI and no other reason. The Adirondacks temp is a totally different thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doncat Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Again most of the warmth this summer was prior to July 10th... concerning min temps, have not had any 70 degree plus mins here since July 15th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 LGA is also on track for the coolest summer maximum temperature of the 2000's. Summer maximum temperature: 2014....93 so far. 2013....100 2012....101 2011....104 2010....103 2009....94 2008....100 2007....98 2006....102 2005....100 2004....94 2003....97 2002...98 2001...104 2000...95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlover74 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Pretty impressive storm could affect NW parts of the area PIKE PA-551 PM EDT THU AUG 21 2014...A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 615 PM EDTFOR CENTRAL PIKE COUNTY...AT 549 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR CONTINUED TOINDICATE A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING LARGE DAMAGINGHAIL UP TO GOLF BALL SIZE. THIS STORM WAS LOCATED NEAR GREELEY...MOVING SOUTHEAST AT 10 MPH.THE SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WILL BE NEAR...TWIN LAKES BY 610 PM EDT...PLEASE REPORT HAIL...OR DAMAGING WINDS TO THE NATIONAL WEATHERSERVICE BY CALLING TOLL FREE AT 1-888-603-1402...OR BY EMAIL AT[email protected].PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...HAIL UP TO 1.75 INCHES IN DIAMETER HAS BEEN REPORTED IN GREELEY ANDROWLAND PENNSYLVANI WITH THIS STORM. IF YOU ARE IN THE PATH OF THESTORM...TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112wxgrl Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have been hearing thunder to my northwest since 5:45. Currently under a severe thunderstorm warning.-Wantage, NJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user13 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Same argument every year. UHI is much more today then in the past. Why are you checking a rural station? I am arguing that UHI is continuing and getting worse. Check LGA and I would bet you money, the average night time lows are increasing over the past 100 years and the only reason for it is because of the growth and building explosion occurring in every single direction around the station. Lol this again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user13 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have been hearing thunder to my northwest since 5:45. Currently under a severe thunderstorm warning.-Wantage, NJStorms look nice, maybe they can hold together for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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