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12/29 Winter Storm OBS/Disco Part II


earthlight

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Not getting my hopes up here on the Island..expecting mainly rain on the south shore..in every snowfall map I have seen by GFS ect..the most I see is an inch here

Snowfall maps by most models, especially like the GFS treat LI likes it's part of the ocean, so that's why you see basically nothing for LI. I'm very sure we'll get over an inch. I don't think this will be a rain event, maybe some mix and a change over to rain for a very brief period of time at worst.

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Nam shows an banding with the vortmax from about Harrisburg- E of Scranton-Albany to NH coast. dry stripe over I95. Hope that doesn't verify, or all those places will have 5-7" while we get a slushy inch.

Edit:18z GFS had us in the Vortmax!! I'll take it over the NAM even if the NAM spits out double the QPF.

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The NAM is just a hair too slow to close off the mid level centers. The high resolution models that show the CCB developing overhead close off the mid level centers just a few hours sooner. Should be fun to track this one tomorrow.

I wouldn't worry too much about the NAM being a bit warm at least in the city and west. It ran several degrees too warm with the last storm.

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850 low is too close to the coast as it merges with the one upstate. 850's still remain below freezing with the exception of coastal NJ. NAM is torching us and giving us rain almost the entire event. But that doesn't seem like what a sfc low would do moving out the delmarva and deepening as it shoots out the NE.

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The NAM is just a hair too slow to close off the mid level centers. The high resolution models that show the CCB developing overhead close off the mid level centers just a few hours sooner. Should be fun to track this one tomorrow.

I wouldn't worry too much about the NAM being a bit warm at least in the city and west. It ran several degrees too warm with the last storm.

from tony gigi (rainshadow) in the philly forum:

"At 0Z, IAD sounding had -1.9 at 925 and -1.3 at 850. NAM initialized with ~-1.5 at 925 and +0.1 at 850.

At 0Z, WAL sounding had -0.1 at 925 and +2.6 at 850. NAM initialized with ~+0.5 at 925 and +2.0 at 850.

"

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I think NE PA into NW NJ as well as the north coast of LI into CT and MA get the best of this

This reminds me of the early 90's when Joe Coffi (one of the best) on News 12 LI who would talk about the LIE (495) being the split between good snows to the north and wetter solutions to the south, on LI.. This whole idea has escaped me over the past decade as it hasn't really been a factor.. Perhaps tomorrow it is..

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850 low is too close to the coast as it merges with the one upstate. 850's still remain below freezing with the exception of coastal NJ. NAM is torching us and giving us rain almost the entire event. But that doesn't seem like what a sfc low would do moving out the delmarva and deepening as it shoots out the NE.

The problem is by the time those warmer temps near the coast here its 21Z. BY that point we're probably snowing for several hours. This is the sort of system where if its going to be rain I think it will start as rain, if it starts as snow its going to be very hard at that point to get it over except for eastern LI and coastal NJ.

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This reminds me of the early 90's when Joe Coffi (one of the best) on News 12 LI who would talk about the LIE (495) being the split between good snows to the north and wetter solutions to the south, on LI.. This whole idea has escaped me over the past decade as it hasn't really been a factor.. Perhaps tomorrow it is..

it does happen but it's rare..usually when it's rain in Babylon it's rain in Huntington..also weather in Islip is usually close to weather at JFK

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Nam shows an banding with the vortmax from about Harrisburg- E of Scranton-Albany to NH coast. dry stripe over I95. Hope that doesn't verify, or all those places will have 5-7" while we get a slushy inch.

Edit:18z GFS had us in the Vortmax!! I'll take it over the NAM even if the NAM spits out double the QPF.

Mentioned this earlier ... but the 18z GFS tried to develop the CCB overhead and had very impressive uvv's from Newark eastward but didn't produce the big QPF. So we'll see.

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it does happen but it's rare..usually when it's rain in Babylon it's rain in Huntington..also weather in Islip is usually close to weather at JFK

Those splits are more common in Nassau county. In February 1999 there was a storm where the south shore of Nassau saw all rain from about 5am -10am while the entire north shore saw a crippling ice storm with power outages all over the place. 12/19/95 and 2/11//94 also had some notable differences between north and south shore in Nassau but those were mainly sleet/snow differences not rain/snow.

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NAM is mighty warm in the low levels...there seems to be a sneaky warm layer near 925mb and the p-type maps are catching on and showing a transition to rain for a period making it all the way up to Newark.

That's not a very good sign.

NAM tends to run too cold in the thermal layers....

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There is very little rain with ths period. If u live on the imm coast yes. You guys r taking ths numerical proggs as gospel. The 850 s r fine. The 925 s may hinder coast for 3 hrs. Central nj south eastern li yes. The euro is far enough off shore. Ths is a snow evenr for 80 perc of ths board. I cant get over the model hugging and the limited met work to see the errors here

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Those splits are more common in Nassau county. In February 1999 there was a storm where the south shore of Nassau saw all rain from about 5am -10am while the entire north shore saw a crippling ice storm with power outages all over the place. 12/19/95 and 2/11//94 also had some notable differences between north and south shore in Nassau but those were mainly sleet/snow differences not rain/snow.

Neat example in Suffolk was 2/5/2001...Port Jeff went over to snow at dusk and accumulated just under 8"...transition was slower 12 miles to the south in Patchogue where, although it eventually snowed, only about 2 inches accumulated.

However during the 1993-94 winter, this was very common...with the N. Shore receiving about 60 inches on the winter and the S. Shore closer to 40 inches.

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