232 replies to this topic

[wxrjm]

I, like most others am absolutely shocked at no warning for Charlotte. I'm at school less than 7 miles from the damage area. Will go check it out once I get back in a week and initial recovery is completed. Three people were thrown from their houses, one a 7 year old that landed on Interstate 485 next to the housing area.

Politics will probably always overrule, but something needs to be done so that counties on the border can be better warned.

[fsu_wxgirl]

Since I have family that live in Murphy, I was following the storms very closely Friday night. Luckily they are all okay. Here is a screen shot of the two cells that moved through the area. I'm not sure which cell produced the EF2 Tornado.

Attached Files

•  Murphy Tornado.PNG   136.71K   3 downloads

[Mr Bob]

Since I have family that live in Murphy, I was following the storms very closely Friday night. Luckily they are all okay. Here is a screen shot of the two cells that moved through the area. I'm not sure which cell produced the EF2 Tornado.

The supercell on the left...the wall cloud passed right over the house...about 5 minutes before this radar shot...We were all outside watching it and I shot it on my daughter's camera but have not downloaded yet..it was getting dark so it may not show up well...the attached photo is a hailstone from Lookout Valley from the same storm about 15-20 minutes before that...

Attached Files

•  photo.JPG   92.25K   0 downloads

[fsu_wxgirl]

The supercell on the left...the wall cloud passed right over the house...about 5 minutes before this radar shot...We were all outside watching it and I shot it on my daughter's camera but have not downloaded yet..it was getting dark so it may not show up well...the attached photo is a hailstone from Lookout Valley from the same storm about 15-20 minutes before that...

Thank you so much for the information. My uncle lives about 10 minutes to the northwest of downtown Murphy. I called about 10 minutes before the first storm hit to make sure they were inside and safe. My dad kept in touch with them through out the evening and my aunt called me the following morning to let me know everyone was okay. She said they didn't even have any limbs down, but she still sounded pretty shaken. My cousin is a volunteer fire fighter in town and was out most of the night and the next day knocking on doors to check on people.

[SuperNET]

As of this afternoon most of the CLT area news media is picking up on the story and have sent reporters to GSP to talk and find out what happened.

[blueheronNC]

Given that this was the most destructive (and had the highest injury count) of any tornado to hit the Charlotte metro. area in most of our lifetimes (50+ years), you'd better believe the news media should be on NWS GSP about this.

[Marion_NC_WX]

The city of Charlotte and the Charlotte Metro area has been flirting with a big disaster ever since the NWS offices were consolidated back in the 90's...Charlotte is the largest Metro area Nationwide without a doppler in close range.

I like the idea that Brad Panovich suggested on his blog, installing a second doppler just north of Uptown Charlotte...not only would it help the Metro area but it would give the other offices a tool to use in coordination with each other. There are actually 2 or 3 spots in North Carolina that has shady radar coverage. For example US 421 from Boone to Wilkesboro to Winston-Salem...they're tucked in between the GSP, Raleigh and Blacksburg radar sites...

[blueheronNC]

The city of Charlotte and the Charlotte Metro area has been flirting with a big disaster ever since the NWS offices were consolidated back in the 90's...Charlotte is the largest Metro area Nationwide without a doppler in close range.

I like the idea that Brad Panovich suggested on his blog, installing a second doppler just north of Uptown Charlotte...not only would it help the Metro area but it would give the other offices a tool to use in coordination with each other. There are actually 2 or 3 spots in North Carolina that has shady radar coverage. For example US 421 from Boone to Wilkesboro to Winston-Salem...they're tucked in between the GSP, Raleigh and Blacksburg radar sites...

The TDWR is pretty good at capturing velocity data in high resolution over the immediate Charlotte metro. area itself - anyone with warning jurisdiction should be pulling up the TDWR on a constant basis alongside the Greer NEXRAD. I live near Charlotte and my default GrLevel 3 setting is on the TDWR. While a dual-pol doppler near Charlotte is a necessity, there is no reason to be flying completely blind.

I'm just glad I made sure to not trust my wx radio warning system that night but kept tabs on the wedge front and surmised that it was going to stay safely south of my location through the event (which it did).

[SuperNET]

I believe CAE's 88D is in a better location to cover the CLT metro than Greer. My home page for (28110) is associated with GSP but the 88D data comes out of CAE.

Specifically, I'm not sure why a STS warning was not issued for the bow echo anyhow.....winds were exceeding 58mph so straight line winds were going to be a problem no matter what happened.

[SuperNET]

The TDWR is pretty good at capturing velocity data in high resolution over the immediate Charlotte metro. area itself - anyone with warning jurisdiction should be pulling up the TDWR on a constant basis alongside the Greer NEXRAD. I live near Charlotte and my default GrLevel 3 setting is on the TDWR. While a dual-pol doppler near Charlotte is a necessity, there is no reason to be flying completely blind.

I'm just glad I made sure to not trust my wx radio warning system that night but kept tabs on the wedge front and surmised that it was going to stay safely south of my location through the event (which it did).

The only problem with that example is that the data is pulled from different sources and organizations (faa) & (noaa) that are not tied together. I agree with your premice that both tools should be used together but on the other hand, I have no idea what kind of 'other' tools GSP has to use.

[Dunkman]

There definitely needs to be a new NEXRAD installed, preferable north of Charlotte so it can cover the Charlotte Metro and the Triad, which also has terrible radar coverage and no TDWR. The RAH radar site is on the east side of Raleigh, then you have Blacksburg up in the mountains far away and Greer. Charlotte is the 24th largest primary census statistical area (PCSA) in the country. The Triad is the 38th largest PCSA in the country. Combined that's 4 million people and they really need better coverage.

[DaculaWeather]

There definitely needs to be a new NEXRAD installed, preferable north of Charlotte so it can cover the Charlotte Metro and the Triad, which also has terrible radar coverage and no TDWR. The RAH radar site is on the east side of Raleigh, then you have Blacksburg up in the mountains far away and Greer. Charlotte is the 24th largest primary census statistical area (PCSA) in the country. The Triad is the 38th largest PCSA in the country. Combined that's 4 million people and they really need better coverage.

Let's see...

70 miles from GSP
78 miles from CAE
118 miles from RAH
and a TDWR (TCLT) right on top of Charlotte. You need MORE coverage?

[blueheronNC]

Let's see...

70 miles from GSP
78 miles from CAE
118 miles from RAH
and a TDWR (TCLT) right on top of Charlotte. You need MORE coverage?

TDWR becomes practically worthless if there is heavy precip. right over the radar site. And being 70+ miles from a NEXRAD site means the beam is way over our heads especially for the low-level-type rotations that are common in these parts.

Btw, Charlotte Observer has a news article this morning about NWS Greenville defending their (lack of) warnings -

http://www.charlotte...r-warnings.html

Some gems:
-Brown said staff members on duty early Saturday morning did see a radar signature of a tornado in Mecklenburg County - but only briefly. "It was there for only one scan of the radar," Brown said.

If it was there over Mecklenburg and still had to traverse Cabarrus County, shouldn't you have pulled the trigger at that point? Shouldn't you have already pulled the trigger for a severe thunderstorm warning with 58+ mph straight line winds in the bow echo before the tornadic signature ever appeared? Something?

-Brown said the time of the storm makes an argument for residents to get NOAA weather radios. The radios are silent until a warning is issued. He said people should put the radios in rooms where they sleep. "I have one at my house, and believe me, when it goes off, you hear it," he said.

Wouldn't have helped in this situation - if anything, made things worse because people had peace of mind knowing no warnings were issued by NWS Greenville when they needed to be warned.

It's classic CYA at this point. I guess they don't want the liability of simply admitting that, "yeah, we should've had a Svr T-storm warning out for Mecklenburg and Cabarrus, and as soon as we got the TOR signature, should've upgraded the warnings to a tornado warning for those downstream of the storm." Instead, a "one-in-50-years" tornadic event for the Charlotte area went completely unwarned. Imagine all the junk warnings for non-destructive events they'll have to issue that won't have the same impact as just having issued this one warning.

[DaculaWeather]

TDWR becomes practically worthless if there is heavy precip. right over the radar site. And being 70+ miles from a NEXRAD site means the beam is way over our heads especially for the low-level-type rotations that are common in these parts.

Btw, Charlotte Observer has a news article this morning about NWS Greenville defending their (lack of) warnings -

There isn't going to be a perfect location for any radar site and I can assure you that no more will be added anytime soon.

At 70 miles you're at about 7000 feet. I live in an Atlanta suburb and I'm still 50 miles from the radar and the beam is about 4400 feet over my head. Even at 25 miles the beam is 1700 feet high and not likely to see a low level TVS.

[DaculaWeather]

Actually, arguably the most important place for a watch was where the wedge boundary was, which happened to transect Mecklenburg and Cabarrus County at the time. Part of Charlotte WAS in the unstable airmass, and that's kind of the point. You had a 15-degree temperature contrast with opposite wind directions within a 3-4 mile distance. The above characterization by NWS GSP suggests that they remain shockingly clueless as to some of the typical local features that North Carolina tends to experience, where often times the greatest danger of tornados is along a wedge boundary if thunderstorms move over them.

You do realize the the SPC issues watches, not the local offices.

[WhiteoutWX]

You do realize the the SPC issues watches, not the local offices.

I think local offices can do extensions to existing watches. I remember in one of the MDs from that day the SPC mentioned the possibility of such a local extension to the tor watch that was up west of the Charlotte area

[DaculaWeather]

They can extend or cancel, but not issue.

[blueheronNC]

You do realize the the SPC issues watches, not the local offices.

I wasn't suggesting that NWS GSP issue a watch. I was suggesting that they should've had a hawk's eye on these particular counties as thunderstorms moved in, regardless of a watch, given the wedge boundary interaction.

[SouthernNJ]

Since I have family that live in Murphy, I was following the storms very closely Friday night. Luckily they are all okay. Here is a screen shot of the two cells that moved through the area. I'm not sure which cell produced the EF2 Tornado.

For clarification purposes, it was the supercell on the right that produced the EF-2 tornado
in Murphy. The tornado happened 13 minutes after the radar image shown at 8:05 PM EST.
The storm had very strong rotation for a good 30 minutes before reaching Murphy, it just
happened to produce directly over the town as opposed to the many miles of open area prior
to getting there. The secondary supercell was of the HP variety, as it dropped hail up to
half-dollar size.

[SouthernNJ]

For the Georgia folks in here, the violent EF-3 tornado that affected Haralson
and Paulding counties had a 29-mile path and a 41-minute duration. The
Atlanta suburbs were threatened, but not much happened. An EF-1 tornado
did briefly touch down in East Cobb Park, exactly between Marietta and Roswell.
Mainly tree and minor roof damage was reported along the 1.4 mile path.

[Tornado Girl]

I posted a blog on the severe outbreak

http://wx4cast.blogs...o-outbreak.html

[wxrjm]

They can extend or cancel, but not issue.

A Tornado Watch was in effect that night for all counties west of Charlotte. Should have been expanded east.

[AcworthWx]

For the Georgia folks in here, the violent EF-3 tornado that affected Haralson
and Paulding counties had a 29-mile path and a 41-minute duration. The
Atlanta suburbs were threatened, but not much happened. An EF-1 tornado
did briefly touch down in East Cobb Park, exactly between Marietta and Roswell.
Mainly tree and minor roof damage was reported along the 1.4 mile path.

Here's the PNS from FFC. I forgot to post this in here, as I already had posted it in the Assessment thread (http://www.americanw...d/page__st__175) on the Main Weather page.


NOUS42 KFFC 061937 CCA
PNSFFC
GAZ001>009-011>016-019>025-027-030>039-041>062-066>076-078>086-
089>098-102>113-071200-
PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PEACHTREE CITY GA
240 PM EST TUE MAR 6 2012
...PRELIMINARY TORNADO REPORT FOR MARCH 2 2012...
...HARALSON-PAULDING TORNADO...
LOCATION: HARALSON AND PAULDING COUNTIES
RATING: EF-3
MAX WIND SPEED: 165 MPH
PATH LENGTH: 29 MILES
PATH WIDTH: 200 YARDS
INJURIES: 1
DEATHS: 0
START TIME: 809 PM
END TIME: 850 PM
BEGIN POINT: 33.8681N/-85.2964W
END POINT: 33.9310N/-84.7965W
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: A TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN IN HARALSON
COUNTY...TRACKED ACROSS THE COUNTY AND MOVED INTO PAULDING COUNTY.
SOME OF THE WORST DAMAGE WAS ALONG BETHLEHEM CHURCH ROAD IN HARALSON
COUNTY WHERE A REPAIR SHOP WAS DESTROYED AND A HOUSE COLLAPSED...
INJURING A PERSON INSIDE. THIS AREA WAS RATED AT EF-3 DAMAGE. OTHER
DAMAGE IN HARALSON COUNTY INCLUDED A METAL ROOF BLOWN OFF A MOBILE
HOME...A CHURCH STEEPLE BLOWN OFF ON MOUNT ZION EAST ROAD AND A
MOBILE HOME PUSHED OFF ITS FOUNDATION ALONG BETHLEHEM CHURCH ROAD.
IN THE VICINITY OF HIGHWAY 27 AND HARPERS CREEK ROAD NUMEROUS TREES
AND TELEPHONE POLES WERE SNAPPED. IN PAULDING COUNTY THE HARDEST HIT
AREA WAS NEAR THE PAULDING COUNTY AIRPORT. THREE TO FOUR PLANES WERE
FLIPPED AND A JET AND HANGER WERE DESTROYED. A PORTION OF THE ROOF
WAS BLOWN OFF AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. AT LEAST FORTY HOMES SUSTAINED
ROOF DAMAGE. 100S OF TREES WERE SNAPPED AND UPROOTED.
...COBB COUNTY TORNADO...
LOCATION: COBB COUNTY
RATING: EF-1
MAX WIND SPEED: 100 MPH
PATH LENGTH: 1.4 MILES
PATH WIDTH: 150 YARDS
INJURIES: 0
DEATHS: 0
START TIME: 913 PM
END TIME: 915 PM
BEGIN POINT: 33.9798N/-84.4608W
END POINT: 33.9799N/-84.4362W
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: THE DAMAGE FROM THIS TORNADO WAS LOCATED
ALONG ROSWELL ROAD/HWY 120. IT BEGAN AT THE INTERSECTION OF ROSWELL
ROAD AND OLD CANTON ROAD. THE TORNADO TRAVELED EAST ALONG ROSWELL
ROAD THROUGH EAST COBB PARK WITH NUMEROUS TREES SNAPPED OR UPROOTED
FROM THE PARK TO AROUND THE INTERSECTION WITH PROVIDENCE ROAD. THERE
WAS ROOF DAMAGE TO A DAYCARE AND A HOUSE AT THE INTERSECTION OF
PROVIDENCE ROAD AND ROSWELL ROAD WITH MINOR TREE AND ROOF DAMAGE
CONTINUING EASTWARD JUST NORTH OF ROSWELL ROAD...ENDING IN THE
INDIAN RIDGE SUBDIVISION.
THIS WILL CONTINUE TO BE UPDATED IF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECOMES
AVAILABLE.
$$