155 replies to this topic

[Stebo48858]

michsnowfreak, on 21 February 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

I have seen 0.0mi visib reported in snow before, but more common is 0.1 mi.

DTW briefly saw 0.1 mi on Jan 29th as well as Feb 10th this winter....(they bottomed out at 0.5 mi today). They saw 0.1 mi visib for like 3 hours straight with the Feb 20, 2011 snowstorm...and both Jan 22, 2005 and Jan 2, 1999 saw several hours of 0.0 mi visib reported.

After 1/4SM it goes to 1/8SM then 1/16SM then 0SM. Lowest I have been here at DTW was 1/16SM with very very dense fog.

[hm8]

michsnowfreak, on 21 February 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Its comical how almost every little snow event has overperformed. Id say if you look at every measurable snow this winter (today was the 21st day with measurable snowfall, though obviously some of those days the same snowfall took place over two days)...Id bet 70% of them overperformed, 20% met expectations, and 10% underperformed. Of course there are two ways to look at this...that we have certainly made the most out of what chances weve had...OR...that its a lot of "stat-padding" that is making the winter seem better than it has been.

Gonna be really weird when were complaining about how bad the winter was in a couple months and we're only like 10" below normal >_>

[Powerball]

michsnowfreak, on 21 February 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I hope this is a reminder than the increasing sun angle that we hear so much about this time of year becomes a moot point for accumulating snow as long as its not too light in intensity.

The bolded is why that point isn't hardly moot.

Most events have light/moderate intensity snow (or snow that starts and stops) than than type of snow we saw this morning.

[michsnowfreak]

Powerball, on 21 February 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

The bolded is why that point isn't hardly moot.

Most events have light/moderate intensity snow (or snow that starts and stops) than than type of snow we saw this morning.

Yes but once the snow has started sticking its not much of an issue. Ive seen enough March snow events to know better.

[SpartyOn]

michsnowfreak, on 21 February 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Yes but once the snow has started sticking its not much of an issue. Ive seen enough March snow events to know better.

So have I and truthfully most of them suck. Only positive asspect of March snows is that its photo friendly. Its usally a plaster or cement and sticks to everything. Problem is the lack of time before that sun burns it away or chips away at it. Today wasnt so much sun as it was temps. We wont have sun angle issues really effect things for a least a couple more weeks. But you can start to feel the suns power when its out.

[michsnowfreak]

SpartyOn, on 21 February 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

+So have I and truthfully most of them suck. Only positive asspect of March snows is that its photo friendly. Its usally a plaster or cement and sticks to everything. Problem is the lack of time before that sun burns it away or chips away at it. Today wasnt so much sun as it was temps. We wont have sun angle issues really effect things for a least a couple more weeks. But you can start to feel the suns power when its out.

Oh I fully agree that March snows do not have the lasting power of DJF and that is sun angle right there. But every year this time we start hearing of sun angle as a hinderance for snowfall accumulations when thats not the case....a snowstorm in March can often have the same immediate affect as if it had hit in January...the difference is say you get a 6" snowstorm with temps in the upper 20s followed by two days of sun and low 30s. Whether the storm hits in Jan or Mar, the storm post-mortum is snow-choked roads, travel nightmares, and snowbanks. The difference is after two days of sun in Jan, the snowpack looks nearly identical, maybe having settled to 5" if that, while in March two days later you see about 5" in the shade with a few inches and grass patches in the sun.

[weatherpsycho]

michsnowfreak, on 22 February 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Oh I fully agree that March snows do not have the lasting power of DJF and that is sun angle right there. But every year this time we start hearing of sun angle as a hinderance for snowfall accumulations when thats not the case....a snowstorm in March can often have the same immediate affect as if it had hit in January...the difference is say you get a 6" snowstorm with temps in the upper 20s followed by two days of sun and low 30s. Whether the storm hits in Jan or Mar, the storm post-mortum is snow-choked roads, travel nightmares, and snowbanks. The difference is after two days of sun in Jan, the snowpack looks nearly identical, maybe having settled to 5" if that, while in March two days later you see about 5" in the shade with a few inches and grass patches in the sun.

This!

[gosaints]

Wow woke up to some subtle shifts in the NAM and GFS. Not to believable but we will see.

[daddylonglegs]

Saints: NAM shows almost nothing while the GFS blitzes Albert Lea???? Weird. GFS shows more here...I would think I'll see in that 1 to 3 inch range.

[gosaints]

daddylonglegs, on 22 February 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Saints: NAM shows almost nothing while the GFS blitzes Albert Lea???? Weird. GFS shows more here...I would think I'll see in that 1 to 3 inch range.

This storm is currently showing more potential than the Sunday system.

[weatherpsycho]

FYI: DLL & saints I believe you are posting in the wrong thread. This thread is about yesterdays storm.

[daddylonglegs]

I agree. IF the gfs is correct, you could be shoveling.

[daddylonglegs]

Weather=

I believe you are correct! oops!

[Powerball]

michsnowfreak, on 22 February 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Oh I fully agree that March snows do not have the lasting power of DJF and that is sun angle right there. But every year this time we start hearing of sun angle as a hinderance for snowfall accumulations when thats not the case....a snowstorm in March can often have the same immediate affect as if it had hit in January...the difference is say you get a 6" snowstorm with temps in the upper 20s followed by two days of sun and low 30s. Whether the storm hits in Jan or Mar, the storm post-mortum is snow-choked roads, travel nightmares, and snowbanks. The difference is after two days of sun in Jan, the snowpack looks nearly identical, maybe having settled to 5" if that, while in March two days later you see about 5" in the shade with a few inches and grass patches in the sun.

The point is it's not as easy as saying "Snow can accumulate in March despite the sun angle/boundary temps" and "Snow can't accumulate in March due to the sun angle/boundary temps."

If every snow event was like the one we had yesterday (or especially that event on November 30th which produced 1-2" per hour rates just SW of here), then of course the snow won't have any problem accumulating.

The snow MUST be steady AND heavy for a significant period of time to overcome boundary layer or sun angle problems.

If you're talking fine flakes with poor large scale forcing (which means in between the suppsoedly heavier bursts, there are areas with very little precipitation and subsidence), then the snow will very much have trouble accumulating. We saw that exactly with most of the snow events in December around here, even if they fell mostly during the nighttime hours.

On the other hand, you had the February 5th-6th storm, which started out with warm boundary temps, but then when it completely changed over the snow came down fast and furious non-stop for 2-3 hours and most around the area (except along the DTW-ARB-Downriver corridor) areas picked up 4-6" of PACKED POWDER in that little bit of time.

[michsnowfreak]

Powerball, on 22 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

On the other hand, you had the February 5th-6th storm, which started out with warm boundary temps, but then when it completely changed over the snow came down fast and furious non-stop for 2-3 hours and most around the area (except along the DTW-ARB-Downriver corridor) areas picked up 4-6" of PACKED POWDER in that little bit of time.

What storm are you referring to here?

[snowstormcanuck]

michsnowfreak, on 22 February 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

What storm are you referring to here?

I'm going out on a limb and guess February 5-6, 2008.